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1 dragonfire1981  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 11:11:08am

Next up: Jurassic Park

2 shutdown  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 2:29:29pm

Thanks to whoever added the picture. It does dress up the page...

3 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 3:33:34pm

I can't for the life of me envision what a dinosaur with feathers might look like. Oh wait, Google images to the rescue!

Now all I have to do is try to wrap my head around the meaning of 70 million years. I can't. I just can't.

70 years = 1941: WWII is causing global upheaval. FDR is President. We listen to big bands, drive big cars, and watch classical Hollywood movies.

700 years = 1311: The Mongol invasions are over, the last of the main Crusades are finished, the Muslim world is in decline, and Europe is on the cusp of the Renaissance. About 40-50 years hence, the Black Death will decimate most of Europe.

7,000 years = 4989 BC: Now we're in prehistory territory, nearly two millennia prior to the construction of Stonehenge I. Humans are still largely living in the Stone Age. The first unified kingdom of Egypt is still approximately 1,800 years in the future. The beginnings of Judaism, in the form of the life of Abraham (a.s.) and his covenant with God, is still about 3,000 years in the future. IOW, from today, looking back into antiquity at the span of time that has passed since the establishment of the first Kingdom of Israel and the building of the First Temple is roughly the same as looking forward from 4989 BC to the life of Abraham. My mind starts to short circuit.

70,000 years = 67,989 BC: Anatomically modern humans are still sharing the planet with Neanderthals as well as woolly mammoths and saber-fricking-toothed cats (decidedly not cutesy LOLcats). We're still firmly in the the Stone Age and living as nomadic hunter-gatherers. We won't begin decorating the walls of our caves with paintings for at least another 35,000 years or so. I say "we" but I can only barely relate to these people. Smoke is starts pouring out of my ears due to the strain of trying to comprehend such vast amounts of time. There is nothing in my world to compare them to.

700,000+ = 697,989 BC: Total disconnect. My mind is now doing this:

4 steve_davis  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 3:49:55pm

re: #3 CuriousLurker

Speaking of saber-fricking-tooth cats, here's something I created from my trip to our local geology museum. His background sucked, so I created my own (potentially sucky) background!

Big Frickin Kittie

5 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 4:01:45pm

re: #4 steve_davis

Cool. Can you imagine having to step outside your cave knowing there were critters like that out there, and the only thing between you & them was your wits and stone-tipped spear or whatever? Yikes.

6 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 6:57:19pm

Really neat. I wonder if we will be able to figure out a pigment profile for some of these to more accurately depict such terrifying reptile monsters. :)

re: #3 CuriousLurker

7,000 years = 4989 BC: Now we're in prehistory territory, nearly two millennia prior to the construction of Stonehenge I. Humans are still largely living in the Stone Age. The first unified kingdom of Egypt is still approximately 1,800 years in the future. The beginnings of Judaism, in the form of the life of Abraham (a.s.) and his covenant with God, is still about 3,000 years in the future. IOW, from today, looking back into antiquity at the span of time that has passed since the establishment of the first Kingdom of Israel and the building of the First Temple is roughly the same as looking forward from 4989 BC to the life of Abraham. My mind starts to short circuit.

I like thinking about the past and how it relates to the present. There are a few frames of reference that might help to picture this time (~5000BC).

The temples at Göbekli Tepe and Nevalı Çori were already ancient at about 4000 years old. The impressive neolithic settlement at Çatalhöyük with a 5000 to 10000 population had been abandoned already for perhaps 700 years or so. Some modern cities had already been inhabited, but abandoned before resettlement such Jericho. While other cities such as Byblos, Argos, and Athens have been continuously inhabited since about this time.

Things you may see everyday from this age are domesticated dogs, pigs, sheep, cows, chickens, cats, and donkeys. Agriculture had been practiced for thousands of years with plants such as emmer and einkorn wheat and lentils though in limited quantities. This time was firmly in the middle of the neolithic revolution (8,000–3,000 BC) when agriculture and domestication underwent a great expansion. Humans began to really settle down into permanent settlements. And they lived in increasingly greater population densities with all the benefits and drawbacks that entails (disease, producing enough food, learning to be civilized and not rip your neighbor's face off when they annoy you, etc). And while it was still in the neolithic, there was some use of metals such as copper and meteoric iron.

I hope that helps visualize this time period better. :)

7 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:08:24pm

re: #6 prononymous

That actually does help, quite a bit. Thanks! I'm going to favorite it.

8 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:10:45pm

re: #6 prononymous

And they lived in increasingly greater population densities with all the benefits and drawbacks that entails (disease, producing enough food, learning to be civilized and not rip your neighbor's face off when they annoy you, etc).

We're still working on that part. ;o)

9 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:32:09pm

re: #7 CuriousLurker

That actually does help, quite a bit. Thanks! I'm going to favorite it.

Your welcome :). I like to put myself in other people's (or organisms' as the case may be) shoes. I'm sure there are ways to relate to the other dates mentioned too. Like in 68,000BC, when their version of desperate may have been sleeping with the local Neanderthals.

That reminds me: Brewing alcoholic beverages started around that 5000 BC era. Maybe as a way to deal with not being able to rip your neighbor's face off. :D

re: #8 CuriousLurker

We're still working on that part. ;o)

Indeed. Humans have been living in cities and settlements for a long time, but I don't know if we will ever outgrow some behaviors...

10 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 7:58:50pm

re: #9 prononymous

Your welcome :). I like to put myself in other people's (or organisms' as the case may be) shoes. I'm sure there are ways to relate to the other dates mentioned too. Like in 68,000BC, when their version of desperate may have been sleeping with the local Neanderthals.

Heh, desperate indeed. Years ago I read a novel called The Clan of the Cave Bear where the main character was a modern human woman whose clan was primarily Neanderthal. She ends up having sex with this Neanderthal guy (it wasn't the least bit romantic *grimace*) and getting pregnant. The baby was, of course part Neanderthal and (IIRC) she almost dies giving birth to him due to his skull size. I don't remember all the details of the story, nor do I know how much research was done for it, but boy howdy was that a brutal time to be alive—of that much I'm sure, regardless of how accurate the book was. I think it actually ended up being a series of novels.

That reminds me: Brewing alcoholic beverages started around that 5000 BC era. Maybe as a way to deal with not being able to rip your neighbor's face off. :D

LOL

11 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:05:45pm

re: #10 CuriousLurker

I actually have the whole set of these books given to me by my Grandma but never got around to reading them. Are they any good? I vaguely remember seeing the movie when I was ~6yo or so.

12 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:13:40pm

re: #10 CuriousLurker

re: #11 prononymous

I recall reading the first three books, so long ago now that I have no trouble imagining the time frame that started this whole discussion ;)

The first was the most compelling and dramatic. Unfortunately (if the Wikipedia summaries are any guide), subsequent books in the series never let you know what happened to Ayla's original clan (i.e. the Neanderthal group who raised her). I hate untied loose ends like that. Always feels like laziness on the author's part.

13 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:16:14pm

re: #11 prononymous

I actually have the whole set of these books given to me by my Grandma but never got around to reading them. Are they any good? I vaguely remember seeing the movie when I was ~6yo or so.

I only read the first one. By the time the second came out, I was busy with...something...I would've been around 19 or 20 when I read it, so God know what I was up to back then, heh. But to answer your question, yes, the one I read was very good.

If you like historical fiction, you should read Aztec by Gary Jennings. Or The Journeyer. Both were fantastic.

14 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:20:15pm

re: #12 publicityStunted

LOL, feeling ancient?

Ayla, yes, that was her name! Well, I'm glad I didn't read the other books if they don't say what happened to her clan. I do remember that the author humanized the Neanderthals for me in a way that I could relate to them, so maybe I should read the first volume again.

15 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Sep 16, 2011 8:23:10pm

re: #12 publicityStunted

re: #13 CuriousLurker

Thanks for the input. I had totally forgotten I had the books so they are now on my to-read list. I'll start on them after the next 2265 pages...


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